Curse

Mhydrian · Aug 11, 2005, 11:05 PM // 23:05

I agree the AI mobs are far too good at stripping enchants, and using cheese skills. Its bad when you cant even cast healing breeze because it gets stripped or shattered instantly.

Bingley Joe · Aug 12, 2005, 12:15 AM // 00:15

You can walk all the way from Fort Ranik to Magumma Stade, board the ferry to Riverside, and wander into Sanctum Cay without doing a single mission.

With or without henchies

How can you people say this game isn't explorable?

Shadow_Avenger · Aug 12, 2005, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

If you can tolerate the pace of morrowind, then it should last you at least a few months of hardcore gaming. I am not really sure about the rest of them.

As far as GW is concerned, i knew walking into it that if i were to play it mostly solo, that it would turn into something i might play a couple hours one day out of the week instead of something i would have become more habit forming. It felt like D2 from the preveiw events and D2 was only really enjoyable with a regular group of guys playing it together on a lan doing random and stupid things. Unfortunatly, there wasnt enough in GW to keep the rest of the guys glued to the screen so im left to default with my original theory for how id end up playing the game.

The Gothic games are Hardcore, too hardcore for some, I have finished the first 2 and really enjoyed them, some have said Gothic is like Marmite, you either love or hate it.
As for DS2, well thats a hack and slash fix, Looking forward to the new morrowind as it simply looks realm but so does Gothic 3.
Found a quick fix though, its a independant dev game, called Fate, it brings back fond memories of Diablo, is prettier than diablo, and actually has a bit more depth, but the gameplay is very similar, its $15 dollars / £11 and is only available through the web. You can see a review on Gamespot.com if you want to check it out. Its a must for Diablo fans.

WasAGuest · Jan 15, 2006, 03:42 AM // 03:42

I realize this is an old thread and all, but I have to agree in some ways. I think a lot of the thoughts of exploring and grouping up comes from not wanting to hear others critique your build or this and that... anyway, my ranger/warrior seems to never get a group for missions. I'm almost always shot down or told to go build something else. So, I ended up soloing the missions (with henchies). To me, a quick and easy Henchie/Pet command ui would fix a lot of problems I have had going through.

Pulling with AI is impossible. Humans know to stay put when someone is pulling. AI enjoy causing chaos and making me panic as they run forward...

The dis-enchant problems also give me a headache. I read some one talk about throwing the economy out of whack. Well, I for one never buy from another player since I'm never sure they got the goods "fairly" or cause they used a uber build/bot... or whatever. I figure I will get my own stuff and play through the game.

A few rl friends and I do team up now and then and the game is more fun with others... but then, being rl friends, they are more accepting to an unusual build.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

fezz47 · Jan 15, 2006, 04:15 AM // 04:15

I kinda agree with the original poster as well.

GW is a fun game to a point for PVE, but does get boring as there is no reward for exploring. Sure you can wander around and get off the beaten path in certain places, but to do so means nothing.

GW was my first real online game and I started for the PVE, got bored with it and after a while started doing PVP, which is also fun for a while, however THAT gets boring too. Not to mention all the idiots you have to put up with. When you first start you're called a fcking newb, then when you get good, people get pissed cause they lose! It's a no win no win situation.

I then did a few GVG matches and while fun was such a hassle getting guildies together at one time wasn't worth it either.

So my solution was to just stop playing the game for a few months. And this solved my problem for the time being. I started again last week and it's been a lot of fun just roaming around, joining pickup groups and helping people out.

But I do think more attention should be given the the PVE part of the game.

Omega X · Jan 15, 2006, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dac Vin

This, my friend, is exactly the problem in PvE: Monsters will NEVER team up with another one, they will always fight as ONE. It would be nice to see, let's say, a mob consisting of a mesmer, a necro and an elementalist. The mesmer would cast fragility, phantom pain, then shatter delusion (Typical mesmer combo). But THEN the necro would cast virulence. And THEN the ele would cast crystal wave. but nooo, they won't teamwork, it's too good for AI!

You mean the HENCHMEN won't do that. Because monster mobs will ALWAYS work together unless they were in a current battle with another mob. Approaching a mob with a full team automatically gets you a typical attack pattern: Monk>Casters>Tanks. The first thing mesmers in the mob do is cast cry of fustration, from there its either Empathy or Backfire. And right after is usually spirit shackles. Eles is usually a ward spell then the normal attack spells, Necros will cast Life syphon unless its a boss in which they will cast their specialized spells. With those certain attack patterns, you can develop your own strategies to beat them.

People forget that Guild Wars is all about skill. That was the way it was designed. You can't use the same strategy everywhere and expect to win every time. And if your build doesn't work well in one area, GUESS WHAT? ITs time to change it. The OP says that PvE doesn't allow for unique builds. That not entirely true. PvE as it stands discourages broken builds in certain areas. And In the ROF area not having the right skills will get you and your team killed. That was purposely done to give players a challenge.

I find it funny that people say that they nerfed AOE skills. What they actually did was fix the AI to respond to it. That forces you to come up with different strategies with those type of skills. But people don't see that. All they see is Anet nerfing and only nerfing. Which isn't true either.

Now what I do agree with is that Anet didn't design the areas with much exploration in mind. They set it up so that people could spend less time grinding and to get through the game quickly. Which is what they advertised. But if you knew that you wanted to explore, then you should have taken the LONG way. Most areas have a long way to get there.

IlikeGW · Jan 15, 2006, 08:10 AM // 08:10

I think part of the problem is it's hard for other people to understand someone else's build, when there's not a lot of indication of what the majority of the skills in the game actually do, without looking them up.

The obvious ones... tank, nuker, monk... have obvious effects. Now what do you tell people if you're using anything more complex than that? I see the same thing happening with PVP. Only builds that get posted to the net are "acceptable" because it's such a pain in the butt to deal with so many different combinations on the fly. I think as a result, there are TONS of skill combos that are extrordinarly not "accepted" yet, but work amazingly. It's one of the disappointing things about the community to me, creativity in game is basically frowned upon, and heavily promoted builds obsessed over.

MrGuru101 · Jan 15, 2006, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMadisonIV

I am a Melee-Built Mesmer/warrior. you can only imagine how long it takes me to get a group.

That sucks. I love I.W. mesmers. I was thinking about making one of my own, but didnt for some reason. I've played with many IW mesmers and they rule. In my opinion IW is one of the best skills in the game.

VGJustice · Jan 15, 2006, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by TideSwayer

Serious question here: do you guys think there's enough energy to go around for PvE? Most spells are double-digit energy to cast and the average player has around 40 energy total with 4 regen ticks or less. This game, IMO, just doesn't allow for many skill combos to be played with that little energy. The 1 minute break between mob battles that parties take because they have to recharge their miniscule energy totals is pretty lame and would be decreased if there were more energy to play around with or there were more energy regen ticks to go around.

This is among the most patently wrong statements I have ever heard. You should try playing in a UW Trapper group some time. I dont' have druid's armor, so my energy is at your "average" 40, but I've only got 3 regen ticks. Even better, the ONLY skills I'm really using are traps, which cost 10, 10, 15, and *25*. And you know what? We plan ahead for this, and take things that will actually help the group. After Quickening Zephire, Energizing Wind, Serpent's Quickness, and 97 points and a minor rune into Expertice, and suddenly that 25 cost Dust Trap (the most useful of all, IMO) comes down to a measly 7, and gets a great recharge time.

I've read most of your posts, and it just seems to me that you're unhappy because you can't just sit back and relax your way through a mission. If you wanna do that, take a level 20 back to The Great Northern Wall. Beyond that, find ways around the stuff that's bugging you. If your enchantments are getting stripped, then you should consider cover enchants or dropping them entirely.

TideSwayer · Jan 15, 2006, 11:21 AM // 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by VGJustice

This is among the most patently wrong statements I have ever heard. You should try playing in a UW Trapper group some time. I dont' have druid's armor, so my energy is at your "average" 40, but I've only got 3 regen ticks. Even better, the ONLY skills I'm really using are traps, which cost 10, 10, 15, and *25*. And you know what? We plan ahead for this, and take things that will actually help the group. After Quickening Zephire, Energizing Wind, Serpent's Quickness, and 97 points and a minor rune into Expertice, and suddenly that 25 cost Dust Trap (the most useful of all, IMO) comes down to a measly 7, and gets a great recharge time.

I've read most of your posts, and it just seems to me that you're unhappy because you can't just sit back and relax your way through a mission. If you wanna do that, take a level 20 back to The Great Northern Wall. Beyond that, find ways around the stuff that's bugging you. If your enchantments are getting stripped, then you should consider cover enchants or dropping them entirely.

Just a small note here: not only do I not feel the way I did when I wrote the topic-starter post, that post was made way back in LATE AUGUST and I haven't really played Guild Wars at all since around late October-early November. (OLD THREAD ALERT!) I frankly don't know how the game plays now. Haven't done so much as kill a devourer in about 2-3 months. I had no problem with the game overall by the time I took a break. I just needed one.

I'm about ready to start playing again. Expansion news + the Beta event has really gotten me back in the GW mood lately. Now I just need to clear out my busy schedule.

Grimm · Jan 15, 2006, 11:53 AM // 11:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo02

I have yet to see a game that addressed monster AI and programmed it to actually be a challenge for people.

F.E.A.R.

Sagius Truthbarron · Jan 15, 2006, 12:04 PM // 12:04

I'de have to say the OP just doesn't think enough. If you want to avoid enchantment removal, take a cover enchantment.

My friend plays an E/W fire-sword-tactics user. I have a Monk/archer. Both do fine in PvE. You can play PvE with any build. I played the whole game through (beat the game) my first time as a smiting-hammer-heal warrior. I was using Orsion of Healing as a self-heal, too! That should tell you something.

MacD · Jan 15, 2006, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Warning: didn't boher to read the second and third page

I'm sorry, but you take !!!!2!!!! cap sigs and you complain about not being effective in PvE???!!! WTF???

DUH!

I really am flabberghasted that you are surprised at that. I usually run builds where even one cap sig makes me a bit more innefective...which is NOT surprising, considering in PvE (and probably also PvP [unless you have some ubermonks on your side]) you've already lost two slots to res/selfheal...and then you remove TWO slots, leaving you to define your build with only 4 skills?

*sigh*

How can you be surprised that you're not effective that way?

And as for exploring...that's something I love to do aswell, and I have no complaints in that direction. Have you found the hunters in pre-searing who give you plain beer? Try going from kryta to maguma and seeing that temple surrounded by the moat, guarded by the bone dragons, hellhounds etc. Have you seen the numerous ruins and waterfalls dotting the landscape in WAY out of the way places? Did you find places like Fishermans haven or the Icetooth caves without downloading a map from the intarweb?

And as for PvE being build-limiting...absolutely not; it's the one place where you don't get your build dictated by the group you're running with. In PvP, you join a group and have to reskill to drapper, energy degen or whatever. In PvE, I've found mopst of the places with a pickupgroup, just by chatting in !all and saying 'hey, who wants to find ToA?' or 'who wants to go exploring?...lo-and behold, ten seconds later we have a group of all different builds and we're chopping up the landscape. I've met some great people that way, and that's also the way I really discovered that ranked PvP-ers are way-too-much-of-the-time arrogant idiots who have no conception of how damaging a mixed build beyond the mo-nuke-warrior can be. Do Galrath with a nec-mes-ele-mo group...simple strategy means you really don't need tanks AT ALL [although it does help

], and that transfers to PvP too.

[DISCLAIMER: I've done tombs and CA/TA too...not all PvP-ers are idiots; I recon any PvP-er reading forums isn't. The above is just a rant about what we've all noticed: PvP-ers who don't know the game that well but think they're uber leet having IWAY-ed themselves to r3, for example, and not understanding that someone who has done the game PvE understands his skillset better having hit thousands of mobs than a PvP-er who has just today made a mesmer for the third time...This bears repeating: I'm not slamming PvP [which I enjoy!], but rather bad PvP-ers (of which there are logically more than good PvP-ers, statistically)....I hope you get what I mean

]

So in conclusion, what it seems OP is driving at is that he can't solo PvE. Well, duh: PvE in GW is an online game, made to be played with a group of people. You want to solo explore? Play an offline RPG.

fezz47 · Jan 15, 2006, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Well all I can say is you must be pretty lucky finding pickup groups that easily.

As I said earlier, I just came back to the game after about 3 months. Was playing last night and went to Dragons Lair just cause I remember that mission being pretty cool.

So I'm hanging around looking for a pickup group. There must have been 10 or 15 people looking for groups for the mission. Problem is seems like no one really wants to do it. I would see "LFG for mission" and I would whisper the person and lo and behold, get no response. I hung around there for a good 20 min. before I found someone to accept me into thier group. I finally find a group and start the mission, but someone forgots their cap, so back we go. Then we get to the first boss, and someone doesn't wait long enough to get the skill. OMFG! End of mission. Everyone blaming everyone else for not waiting.

So I'm just going to use hench from now on which I did last night. It's just not worth all the bullshit most of the time. Also I'm a R/Trapper which I love. However, try and get with a pickup group that will listen and understand that if they wait and let me lay some traps and draw the mobs it will be better for the group. Nope, they just barge ahead in front of the traps which of course does no good at all leaving me with very little energy to help out.

Bah! Guess I just need to find a better guild.

H2SO4 · Jan 15, 2006, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Screw cookie cutter and tanks nukers and whatever, I'm using a water ele, am i mad probably but it works, sure I cannot nuke but I can slow the gits down so I can spam off *another* aoe and watch them crawl slowly out of it. All the time while my mates are pummelling them

GW is as inventive as you want. "Necessity is the mother of invention" I needed to play a non nuker / spiker ele so I went water. And I made it work. its not broken ~ its just that its easier for ppl to play those accepted steriotypes.

So if people get the heads out of their .. pumpkins .. then we'd be better off. However I do think that what the game needs is some random-ness and some explorable areas a bit like the FOW repeatable missions except not as repeatable. and with no cost. for lower levels. becsue at lower levels all you do is try to get to a higher level....

Teufel Eldritch · Jan 15, 2006, 07:32 PM // 19:32

I would have to say that GW itself allows for a person to play a wide variety of builds. GW players(the majority) on the other hand show very little creativity/imagination & impose thier limitations on others. GW players(again most of them) only want cookie cutter builds they read off some forum.

Francis Crawford · Jan 15, 2006, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Are there any threads about exactly which skills henchies carry?

Many of them are obvious, but the complete list at every town isn't immediately apparent.

Ditto for exactly how they use them.

Guildwiki has some good info, but it seems incomplete.

WasAGuest · Jan 15, 2006, 08:14 PM // 20:14

What I find even moer fun is seeing all the posts here asking for help on builds. Within the replies to these posts you'll see "Just try it out" or "There's no bad build". Other such replies like that are all over; yet in other posts like this one, you will read posts about broken builds or such things.
It seems the GW community is split over this.

Does the game discourage unique builds? I think it is more the players. If each player were able to adapt themselves to any situation, then any build would work. Seems most people don't or aren't able to adapt and so force others to do so by stating "Build a x/x" or "Your build is broken".

Do I adapt? I try to. In fact I grouped with a E/Mo (smiter) and a N/R last night. We had a blast using the oddest assortment of skills I've yet seen. And thanks to the AoE (as it is now) foes did little but run toward us and then turn to flee as arrows peppered them.

As it stand, I still have a hard time finding PUGs (for missions) with my R/W and therefore am forced into solo with henchies...

Goonter · Jan 15, 2006, 09:30 PM // 21:30

I semi agree.

You dont "need" to stick to the favorate teams and builds through pvp. But they do work all the time. (granted players have a general understanding of what they need to do)

Id say mobs need to be as smart as this.
If you are evading, blocking or the damage towards you is being replenshed - switch targets or stop attacking.
If attacking or using a skill will hurt or disable me - stop attacking, kite and get support healing if possable.
If health is low - retreat and self heal or get support healing.

Then make mobs spawn in a variation of team set ups randomly in areas where possable. Give them dual professions. Spread them out across the landscape to make exploration less tedious. Reajust all skills to work optimally for PvP.
blame! all class should start to fit in a little better and all your enchantments can be safe to use. (to some degree)

Deathqueen · Jan 15, 2006, 10:18 PM // 22:18

I think us pve-ers finally just have to face facts. GW's is not a mmorpg, it doesn't have the quality pve features to keep many interested for long. Weapons stats are the same with little room for improvement on stats once you get the 15's and with collectors freely spread about these are easy to obtain, you can even buy a +15% sword now for 5 plat and a few resources. The skins are rather boring and stale and don't give much incentive to go out and explore/farm for any of them. Besides the drop rate being very pitiful poor now after so many nerfs to stop bots and ebayers, they've practially ruined the fun value for most of the rest of us that played the way it was intended, very sad really.

Other Mmorpgs when you kill a "boss" you get something nice and useful. GW's bosses, when you kill them you are lucky to get some coin, rarely anything of value and basically just makes pve a waste of time once you have completed the story.

Armor stats are the same no matter what they look like after you reach Droknar's Forge, they are just more expensive to craft vs letting them drop off a boss mob or something that would give more fun and reason to go adventuring instead of farming for ectos and shards. 15k armor is not better than 1500gp armor, fissure armor is no better than 1500gp armor. This is a big difference in real pve mmorpgs and GW's illusion of a pve game atmosphere.

Then to top it off they offer the complete skill set once you get to hell, no adventuring required, no reason to adventure, here you are all you need is plat, go farm and experience farming, and buy all your skills, am surprised they didn't add elites to the list, give it time they probably will.

This is the difference between a Diablo 2 and Dungeon Siege like game vs GW's. They had unique items and item "sets" to explore for. Every adventure through Diablo 2 always yielded very good quality items and of course the ability to level to 99. I'm rather bored of being level 20 since the first month I played the game over 7 months ago. The newness has gone and boredom and repetitiveness sets in.

All n all it was a good ruse to get people interested in the 1st edition, but, well as for myself it has no appeal for the 2nd edition. Farming just isn't the type of pve game I wanted to play and pvp is not my style of role playing at all.

It's expansions will make their way to the bargain bins at which time I might take a look at them for say $5, but, I won't be paying $30, $40 or $50 for anymore. Can't see spending anymore money on it since I can get a better experience and more fun value out of over 3000 mods of Neverwinter Nights and Neverwinter Nights 2 is coming soon along with Oblivion, I will support them since I know I won't have to worry about nerfs to the game or item drops.